Helena Volfová asked. „I know Pam, so we address each other informally in the interview.“
"Purple Photos" - Samuel Alexander Petráš
"Black Photos" - Jakub Maršál
Pam, you are a woman who no longer needs to explain herself. You have no need to justify what you do and why. Who is Pam today and who is Pam Rabbit? Where does your alter ego begin?
Pam Rabbit is my alter ego. I am Pamela Narimanian. But the older I get and the longer I am Pam, the more I feel that they are starting to merge together. The difference today might just be a different outfit and energy. Pam, for example, doesn't talk much about personal things, she focuses more on the people around her. I think that when someone meets a singer or anyone famous, they actually see you live for the first time. It’s important that those people feel great because of you. Maybe it’s some kind of fate for someone who is publicly visible. So that people leave feeling better than when they met you. And Pamela? That’s normal life. I am an introvert. I don't really feel the need to go out for a beer or be constantly among people. I prefer to be home alone.
So Pam and Pam Rabbit are no longer two characters, but one being. Did you discover yourself in your alter ego, or did it discover you? And when you dress her, style her, do you give her your face and strength, isn't it like an adult version of paper dolls? Instead of dressing a paper doll, are you dressing yourself? What have you given each other?
I would say that Pam Rabbit gives me the opportunity to be extravagant. Because I always used to change at home, play with clothes... and I absolutely loved it. I loved Michael Jackson, Freddie Mercury, Beyoncé, David Bowie. I enjoyed how extravagant they are, how they are actually a bit out there. But when you dress like that normally outside, people look at you like you’re crazy. Sure, you can ignore it. But I know that when I dress like that, I want people to perceive me the way I perceived those people I loved. So they say, „Wow, everything is shining, that’s amazing!“ But if I met someone in such an outfit on the street, I would probably think, „Is everything okay?“ (laughs) For some reason, when an artist does it, people take it as it makes sense. When a „normal“ person does it, they think they are crazy. Even if I put a crow on my head, everyone will say, „Hmm, maybe they want to say something?“ They always look for something behind it because you are an artist, so it’s okay to be extravagant.
You have two Angels. Do you feel their weight?
Yes. In the summer, I use them as a support for my mobile air conditioner because they are the heaviest and smallest thing I have at home. (laughs) But I understand you.
Do you think that comes with a certain weight of responsibility towards the people who follow you? Sometimes it seems to me that even though you artists don’t feel the need to prove anything to anyone, we as an audience always expect something from you. That every time you come up with something new, something fresh. In other fields, let’s say in medicine, you discover something and people respect you for that discovery long-term. And you don’t have to prove it again every year. It’s not about: „So come on, what do you have this year?“ But with you, with artists, as soon as you achieve something, the next step is immediately expected. The next thing. The next proof. Do you feel that pressure? How do you cope with it?
Yes, yes. That’s how it is. I have dealt with this topic many times. I think it’s important to distinguish one thing. I will not take myself as an artist, but as a celebrity. Because I think there’s a big difference in between. When you are a real artist, you need to create something real and you don’t care if it makes you money or not. Then there’s the second sphere of wanting to be a celebrity because it sustains you. Some want to be a celebrity because they really enjoy the fame. When you do the job the way I do it. I know that the more people listen to me, the more freedom I have. It pays your rent, basic living needs, and you can do only what you enjoy. It’s a beautiful moment. When you can get up every morning and just create. That’s like wow! That’s a dream. You have to be a bit of a celebrity to have this lifestyle. If you don’t have money from somewhere else. That’s the first layer and then there’s the second. Exactly what you describe. The pressure of society. And that’s something I’m constantly working on now. So that I don’t deal with it. But it’s hard. It’s really hard. One day you are weak and deal with it a lot and the next day you don’t care at all. But you constantly chase the idea of being liked by people. You are constantly chasing the relevance of staying a celebrity. So you can keep that job. You are in a way a business. When people stop liking you, it means that your work will stop succeeding. It will stop being your lifestyle and it will all fall apart. There’s that pressure that you have to maintain some relevance and people want from you.
Most fields can be studied. You can become a doctor, a lawyer, a hairdresser, a saleswoman. There’s a school, a system, a clear path for everything. But no one prepares you for how to become a celebrity. And yet you are the most visible and everyone wants to somehow „create“ you. Everyone has well-meaning advice, everyone knows what you should do better. What I like about you is that you are consistent. You wanted to sing, entertain people, put on a show, and you do it. You came up with it, created it, realized it yourself. At the same time, you say that as a celebrity you are actually „nourished“ by the audience. That for that life to work, you have to somehow please people. How does this meet with not losing yourself?
Well, it’s complicated. I think you have to be okay with the fact that it can fall apart.
Are you okay with that?
Yes. I take it that way. Rather than doing something that bothers me. So I often refuse a lot of offers where I could make really good money. Just because it somehow doesn’t go hand in hand with what Pam Rabbit represents for me.
And what does Pam Rabbit represent for you?
For me, Pam Rabbit, as the character I created, is like my superhero. And the outfit. That’s the superhero costume.
Do you feel that when you stand on stage as Pam Rabbit, you have a crowd of people in front of you who are looking at you and you somehow lead them at that moment? You have to be a leader of their mood for that moment. And guide them and they will go where you want. And my goal as Pam Rabbit is, to make people leave with a better mood. So that in this world, which is just complicated and we all have to chase something. So that they feel for a moment that time has stopped. And they can really be present there. I also have this when I meet some fans, I try to make them see that I perceive them. I look them in the eyes and really give them the feeling that they are special. That they are not just like that. That there was really a human connection between us. So that from that interaction with Pam Rabbit, they leave with a good feeling inside them. I work on never letting it happen that they leave with the feeling that I didn’t notice them. Or, that I didn’t give them the feeling that they are important.
When you are out in a casual outfit, without makeup, with a coffee in hand, and someone stops you and asks for a photo, do you say „sure“ or do you apologize?
No, I really can’t do that. I don’t think I could ever tell anyone „no, I don’t want to take a photo“. I would immediately switch to Pam Rabbit and handle it. I just can’t turn it off. We’ll see how it will be when it happens more often. When I’m alone it’s not a problem. But if I were with friends and the sixth person came up, I still think I wouldn’t say no. I’d probably just change the location. Honestly, I can’t imagine telling someone „no“ when they want a photo. Then I would feel terrible and think about it all day. This is just part of my job. And it’s not that hard to go somewhere else, to privacy or be at home. And above all! Czechs are really nice about it. You see they recognized you, but usually, if they are not extreme fans, they don’t come up, they don’t feel that need. They smile at you differently. You can feel it. It’s different from normal human interaction.
You are very active on TikTok, so fans have the feeling that they know you personally, like the „girl next door“. And everyone wants to say something to you. How do you react to that?
I really enjoy it. I enjoy it a lot. I am so unfiltered. I don’t like small talk that much. And when they jump at you like that, you’ve skipped some sphere. And you are right in that intimacy. Most of the time they start with „Are you Pam Rabbit?“ „Yeah, yeah.“ And when I see they’ve been shopping, I ask them what they bought and immediately go into that vibe with them, like we’ve known each other for a long time. Because the reality is, we are all the same. And when we have a piece of common ground and we walk together and chat, they open up to you really quickly. They already know me for some time, so it’s easier for them to tell you something they wouldn’t tell to anyone. In their mind, they already know me a lot and I’m a friend they start confiding in immediately. For example, that they just had a fight with their husband. I would respond that I’m sorry to hear that. I just try to connect on that level, to give them the feeling that I know them just as much as they know me.
When you leave that meeting and you part ways. Do you go home with a nice feeling that you were able to connect humanly?
Not that I helped humanly, but I go home with a nice feeling. Just a nice human interaction. You skip the small talk at the beginning. And for me, it’s a very pleasant feeling that I have a lot of friends, in a special way.
Do you need a lot of friends?
No, not at all. I am an extreme introvert. So this is what I like. It’s a friendship that doesn’t need maintenance. (laughs)
I understand. Time-limited with short-term chemistry, which works for a moment.
Exactly. We met, spent a journey together, had a beautiful moment, and we each go our own way. For me, it’s really hard to maintain long-term friendships. When the person on the other side wants a lot of maintenance.
And by maintenance, do you mean pressure for contact? Let’s meet, let’s call?
I’m the kind of person who doesn’t need that. When we are friends and had a nice interaction, you don’t have to call me or talk to me for a whole year. And when I meet you again, we are right where we left off. I don’t need that person to somehow „subsidize“ me with time. In this, I’m really introverted. It’s very hard for me to realize that. And I work a lot on being a better friend to those people I care about and who matter to me. I try not to neglect them. Every now and then I say, „Hmm, I should call now,“ to show that I really care about them. I even have to write it down in my calendar. (laughs)
Do you like feminine femininity? Do you like being in the mode of a woman? When we first met ten years ago at your beginnings. You seemed like a woman who has her whole life under control. Seeing help as weakness or vulnerability. Now that people have really started to perceive you in the last three years and know who you are. How has your relationship with your own femininity changed?
Definitely more. It’s because I’ve worked a lot on myself now. For three years I’ve been actively seeing a psychologist, processing various traumas and other things. I want to be a better person. For myself and for the people around me. So that I don’t act based on some trigger. So that someone tells me something and I immediately „explode“. I want to remove these things from my life. So that maybe one day, when I have children, I don’t pass them on to them. I want to be in control of myself. I now see that when someone lashes out at me, it’s because they might be insecure. We people are mostly not evil. Most of the time we are really nice and want love. But when someone is really evil, they have a lot of unresolved issues. I’m trying to resolve my issues. Since I’ve been resolving more and more, I naturally fit more and more into my femininity. And I also allow myself to ask for help. At the same time, I am officially a boss for a lot of people. So somehow I still have to have that tough hand. Without it, things would start falling apart quickly. But I feel that even the way I am a boss is changing a lot. It’s becoming more feminine.
I’m learning what it means to be a woman. For me, it’s a certain calmness, a feeling I want to give to the people around me who work with me. So they feel comfortable. At the same time, I want them to feel that I am tough. That they can’t afford not to do the job. But at the same time, I try to make them feel that when they come to me and their life is really bad, they can lean on me. At least they know that I will take it seriously. And that’s femininity for me. That you are capable of having seven different characteristics. You don’t just have depression, anger, or happiness. Often I feel that those are the three emotions that stereotypical men control. They are mega happy, then they are mega sad, or they are pissed off. (laughs) That’s why it’s said that we women are more emotional because we have a wider range. For me, femininity stems from motherhood. That you can take care of those people and delegate things correctly.
Delegate? You really know how to delegate?
Yes, I really do!
For a long time, you were in the mode of doing everything yourself. You were an artist and executive production in one. From lyrics and music, through scripts, costumes, and editing to the final music video. Your tenacity and passion are fascinating. „I can’t“ or „it doesn’t work“ are not in your vocabulary. You just go for it and learn it. Now on March 18, you have the Forum Karlín. A big thing. A huge concert. What of what you would have done all by yourself a year ago, are you consciously delegating today?
Now I do it in a way that at the beginning of the process, we talk about it together with people. Because only I really know what I want to say with it. The Forum is a huge difference compared to Roxy. Suddenly I have a whole team of lighting and technicians and so on. And I just rely on those people being professionals. Then I leave it to them to do their part, and when we meet, we are already polishing it.
How do you prepare? Where do you look for inspiration?
Every album has its era. Now we are like Planet 33. We are in the universe, on one planet, and I am an alien. It all stems from the fact that I’ve always felt strange in social situations. Literally like an alien. Plus there’s Bibinka (note: a rabbit), who died and is on that album (note: on the album cover). It’s also a closure of this part of my life. She was also my little alien pet. On that album we have a world of the universe and I looked for inspiration in something similar. I watched sci-fi movies. „Men in Black“ is a huge inspiration for the whole album.
So that means you’ll take that to the staging and say, „OK, if I had to make a musical out of „Men in Black“. What will it be, how will it be? Suits, glasses, lights, and you’re off. I watch different concerts. For example, Beyoncé’s insane concert at Coachella, or what James Brown, Michael Jackson did. I look at my icons or the icons of my icons. And I observe the details and look for certain moments and try to incorporate them into my show.
Are you an intuitive person?
Yes, I am. I sense people a lot and usually my judgment is immediately confirmed. I feel what kind of energy that person has. And I can feel bad if it’s not good. When I feel that they are okay, I can trust them. I rely on that much more now and it always turns out well. As soon as I don’t listen a little, it’s a mess. I am intuitive and at the same time I am a very logical person. When something goes wrong, I immediately have to look for a solution. I absolutely don’t enjoy wallowing in it.
You really don’t give yourself even a short time to wallow? A few minutes to complain and then move on?
I rather have it that I don’t give myself, don’t give myself, and then I have that exact day when I cry and just roll around in everything at once. I give myself that space to say that everything is wrong, that it’s terrible and life is unfair. And then I cry it out and it’s okay. Right now I feel like I’m a bit on the edge. The preparations for the album and for the Forum are really intense. I really want to put on a show that surprises even me and everyone. I told myself enough! I have to stop being afraid of messing something up. I’ll just do it. It’s not about it being perfect. It’s about taking steps that I’m really scared of, but I know I really want them. Like dancing with dancers. I’ve always just dreamed of that and been too scared. Now I say, „OK“, I want to do it, so I have to train, just like my idols. They are that good because they train more than everyone else. It’s not just like that. There are a lot of talented people. When I see, for example, Beyoncé running on a treadmill while singing. I know that Taylor Swift does it too. I draw inspiration from the backstage things they do to be that good.
On stage, you come across as seductive but not vulgar. It’s not a primary provocation. You maintain your boundaries and your style, yet you let energy flow freely. High heels, a short skirt, and shorts underneath are significant for you. How important is it for you to have control over how you present your body?
It started with me feeling uncomfortable being „naked“. Because first of all, you have to keep checking that you look good. Because even a person with the best body in the world can end up in a bad angle or moment. I really like being free and I want to run and scream and not have to check how I’m standing and what’s showing. And when I have my jacket, I can actually be slouched and it will still look good. At first, it was such a logical and comfortable thing for me, and in the end, it became a style in which I’m free in my expression. When I watch Beyoncé, she is extremely revealing and I really like that. Because for some reason, when a woman is strong and loves herself and reveals herself, it doesn’t come off as cheap. You can feel it. And the exact same outfit, the same body, just a different energy and suddenly she’s a goddess next to a girl who wants men to like her. I think I’m now in an internal phase where I wouldn’t mind wearing a revealing outfit because it would be my decision that I want to be hot now.
Will you have an opening act at the Forum?
Yes, Katannah. He already opened for me at Roxy. A young amazing rapper from Teplice. He has a vision, he has his image, and he’s not afraid. He doesn’t copy any genre or styles. And that voice! I always tell him he has a voice for three people at once, it’s huge and sounds like a big bad dog. (laughs)
What emotion do you find hardest to express in songs?
Happiness and joy. That really gives me a problem. When I think about it, I don’t really have many songs that are happy. And when I do, they are more like manifestos. Like „Space“ is also actually a manifesto song. It’s not that I’m happy, but that I want to be happy. I obviously have a lot of beautiful joyful moments, I just find it difficult to write that for some reason. Because I have such a strange feeling about myself that I want to stick my head in the sand and I don’t even know why.
